I’m very interested in your aim to find and make contact with an authentic esoteric tradition.  How will you decide whether what you find is authentic or not...and if you decide it is, what then?

I’m also interested in your statement that in your opinion no authentic Gurdjieff school exists.  How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Good luck with the search!
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Hi Robert

Not sure if I said it so boldly that none exists in the Gurdjieff tradition but I suppose that I have a ‘working hypothesis; derived from G (and Shah) that the fourth way changes it’s outward form and takes forms that may not appear to be esoteric and is not ‘heirarchical’ like a church or religion.

Having said that, it does seem that G wanted to set up a sort of structure of this type before his death so who knows. I suppose the assumption is that if G was ‘genuine’ than he must have been a representation of the larger tradition which by definition is mot structured - otherwise there would be no need for a search would there? It would be obvious to see and all that would be needed would be to head to the local mosque or church.

But as I say, those are assumptions and they could be wrong - the project is as much about refining perceptions (and thereby dealing with assumptions) as finding ‘truth’ - in fact the two may be the same thing mightn’t they?

Re recognizing it and how - that is the whole point. We cannot recognize it at the moment. I sometimes suspect that it is ‘staring us in the face’ and recognizing it is not a matter of finding some hidden cabal ‘in the east’ but acquiring some inner capacity. Or ‘waking up’ if you prefer.

Certainly I do not believe it is a process of rational deduction or actual physical searching necessarily although I do think the project needs to utilise rational and logical methods, of only because we are living in an age of increasing ‘unreason’ and surrender of thought.

Segovius,

I would echo Robert’s comment as well.  The essential books about Gurdjieff’s teaching detail his efforts to establish a Fourth Way school along the lines of the teaching he discovered.  I don’t see any reason to reinvent the wheel for yourself. 

Nor do I think you could actually find the kind of esoteric “brotherhood” Gurdjieff speaks about just by searching the internet.  In my experience the internet has only added to the confusion of voices that plagues every seeker.  To many “wiseacres” out there, Gurdjieff might say....

Best Wishes!

Well, you’re probably right. I agree about the internet, it is virtually useless as a research tool and wasn’t thinking of using it.

The idea is more to find the reality if it exists - who knows, we may find it is actually the Gurdjieff organization or ‘a’ Gurdjieff organization. We find otherwise. We may find nothing - but then again, that’s what we would find anyway if we didn’t look, so in a way it is one of those rare things in life: a deal where you can win much but lose nothing.

And of course it helps pass the time somewhat and may even give me something to post about when I run out of ideas.....

I’m very excited and interested in your proposal as it is one I’ve nurtured inwardly for some time (and I’m sure there are quite a few others).  I’d very much be interested in being a part of the research and quest.  What might be some ways it would be undertaken?  Certainly on the intellectual side, there could be quite a bit of digging for books and sources.  If there isn’t any travelling involved, what else might this research involve?  Experimentation with different techniques to develop presence?  Might one intentionally seek out what is obviously NOT a real school (such as “cults"), so as to experience first-hand the subtle differences (like G. teaching his pupils how to fake certain magick and psychic phenomena)?

Hi Hebrides

I am not so sure that travelling might not be involved. There are numerous individuals that might need ‘checking out’ in places like Turkey and Central Asia but this would be part of a larger enterprise and we would have to somehow devise a way of getting the money to structure this.

I’m personally not so into experimenting with ‘techniques’ myself without any guidance but then the point is to find some guidance.

I really empathize with your idea of ‘magic’ - this is something I had in mind and have long had an interest in stage magic and sleight of hand. This is definitely something to persue - have you read Tahir Shah’s ‘’Sorcerer’s Apprentice’ which documents his training with a conjurer of this sort?

I might writea review of it here actually, it is a fascinating book.

Hi again Segovius,

I’m not completely clear about what your aims are.  Is your interest purely academic? - are you simply aiming to collect and documentevidence of the existence of esoteric schools, or is it something more than that?

Hi Robert

I can see where there might have been some confusion and have changed the general aims somewhat after some suggestions by some friends.

I will answer this more fully later today or tomorrow in a min post as it seems like it could be a good area of discussion.

Later.

I haven’t read Tahir Shah’s book, but I will definitely look for it.  It sounds like it would dovetail quite nicely with somethings I’m interested in.

I’m looking forward to your minipost, also!